Owen, if I can fly across the pond to be there, you had best be there, or I'll stalk you down and ... oops, forgot, you're a rather large lad ...



Tried the CTC again today. Must be too beat from Saturday's race because I could not come within a half second of my previous best. Gawd, I am slow!

Sorry mates!

I'll be there unless i am racing OTW , will attempt 300m again tomorrow been saying that for 2 weeks now .

Owen:

I believe tomorrow is too late, yes? Isn't it March 1, time for the Rugby Test?

Also, a question for the group ... at least the more "senior" members.

How long does it typically take for you to recuperate from a race? I have been finding that it's a good 3 or 4 days for me, which is surprising, as I would have thought a day or two at most, and I'd be good to go.

My 300M attempt this morning was miserible. I raced Saturday, took Sunday off, did 2 recovery rows yesterday (about 10K total in two 5K pieces, strapless and easy), and tried the 300M today. I felt like crap afterward, and did a 20'@20SPM piece that was miserible the entire way ... slow, painful, sweaty ... every pull was an effort. And the pace was 2:09.3, when my very best 30'@20SPM pace is 2:06.2 ... so it was not a very taxing or speedy workout by that standard.

Most of you here that are anywhere near my age have been rowing longer than me, so are more fit, and maybe you recover faster. I have another race on Sunday, and I'm thinking that scheduling two races two weeks in a row is probably something that it's not wise to do again, if it truly takes me 3 or 4 days to recover. What's the point? How could it be possible to improve much, or at all, if it's 3 or 4 days to recuperate? Then, one or two "real" days of training, a day off, and another race. And that assumes the first race is on Saturday, and the second is on Sunday.

Your thoughts?

Thanks -- Mark

Sorry mates!
[/quote]

I'll be there unless i am racing OTW , will attempt 300m again tomorrow been saying that for 2 weeks now .
[/quote]

Owen:

I believe tomorrow is too late, yes? Isn't it March 1, time for the Rugby Test?

[

[/quote]

That's gonna hurt like h*** then!

Mark,
Anywhere from 2 to 4 days is my average. At least to be fully recovered.

I can, however, get back on the erg the next day, but it usually isn't the most productive.

Owen,
Now is the time to do it. Team Oarsome has caught up with us for second. Give it another go mate.

Speedy

Mark if you race hard and dig deep you need at least a full week to recover. real recovery rows should be done at real slow pace. Re,ember it's not the training that makes you better but the build up done bye your body afterwards.

ps Certainly above 40. You are not ranger who recovers in 60 min. yeah right

From weight training, I know that the building-up takes place while "resting" not working out, but seem to forget this with aerobic activity ... to me it seems like every meter, or every mile, is putting "money in the bank" ... more meters, more money ... more rest, less money ... at least until the effects of overtraining kick in, and I don't believe I'm anywhere near that limit.



Since I had nothing left on Saturday, for the first time really, I expected recovery to take a while ... but the way I felt today surprised me. Not even sure tomorrow will be a worthwhile workout (except for more recovery purposes, which I know is worthwhile in a different way). And, I'm eating well, sleeping well, and watching alcohol intake (almost nothing).

Good to see you back Phil....big question is whether you'll make it to 1,000,000 meters this season? What are the chances?

Mike

Timely reminder Mike, I hadn't looked at my overall metres for a long time and had forgotten my commitment to make 1,000,000 metres this year. It's only 120K to go, yeah still hopeful.

Physio reassured me today that all is normal so I try a bit harder thisweek.

Phil

How about entering the Kingston Uni 2K on 22nd April? I've sent in my entry for that one.
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9761

How long does it typically take for you to recuperate from a race? I have been finding that it's a good 3 or 4 days for me, which is surprising, as I would have thought a day or two at most, and I'd be good to go.


Most of you here that are anywhere near my age have been rowing longer than me, so are more fit, and maybe you recover faster. I have another race on Sunday, and I'm thinking that scheduling two races two weeks in a row is probably something that it's not wise to do again, if it truly takes me 3 or 4 days to recover. What's the point? How could it be possible to improve much, or at all, if it's 3 or 4 days to recuperate? Then, one or two "real" days of training, a day off, and another race. And that assumes the first race is on Saturday, and the second is on Sunday.

Your thoughts?

Thanks -- Mark
[/quote]


Mark

Takes me several days to truly feel good about higher intensity pieces of any substance. i survived L2 workouts monday morning after racing saturday.

the benefit of scheduling many races is having more practice with the race-day jitters, etc.

Adam

New Hm PB today, 30 sec improvement
1:28:41.3 2::06.1 24 spm (slides, just like the last one)

Stopped for water 4 times
Mostly 9 or 10 spm but took a few thousand here and there unrestricted to rest
Ended with a 200m sprint at somewhere in the mid 1:40s

All that for only 7 more Nonathlon points!

It was fun to be ahead of the pace boat all the way. If I try again I'm afraid I'll be gasping to keep up

Well done Carla that's a full 8 and a half minutes better than mine

I'm just back from a week out with flu but i managed a slow 5.5K yesterday and 3.5 the day before. So when better to take the Rugby test I thought so I did. I must say I hate sprints (the 300m ones hurt my knees too much) but at leat with this you can do some sort of pacing.

I'm itching to get my times into the CTC website so I can be in Taff Attack boat one for about 10 minutes. before the quicks do the test for the first time. I'm not cheating as it is the 1st of March down here in Australia, trouble is, I'm going out later and you can bet the site gets changed while I'm out:-)

Ah well - boat 5 has lots of nice people in it too

I did 12:14.8

1000 @ 1:54.7
750 @ 1:52.4
500 @ 1:53.1
250 @ 1:47.2 - hit 170 heart rate here so shows how unfit I still am
750 @1:53.4

I've set it in my favourites so I'll have another go or 5 during the month

Brendin

Brendin

nice job with the rugby test. how did you feel during it?

Adam

Adam - thanks

Felt like I should have gone a bit harder on the 1K, everybody says that the last 750 is a killer so I think I held back. The last 750 is tough, I could definitely feel my form going at times as I tried to maintain the pace. It's a couple of hours now and I have done a 6K in between and my legs still feel strong, which confirms I didn't go hard enough.

As an aside, its a pretty good view of general fitness measured by how much your heart rate recovers in the rest periods. I wuld have liked to see mine recover some more.

I like it MUCH more than the 300m where i was an injury waiting to happen, at least with this one you get a warmup before doing the 250m

Lets see how it goes - my target is sub 12 mins at the moment

Brendin

Wales is white! At least down Swansea way , no school for me so off to throw snowballs at much younger children , Happy Snow Day!

And a happy St Davids Day to all Taffs

only an hour to go here in Oz

Brendin:

What's your PB or SB 2K time? I have a calculator I've built for doing L1 Wolverine Plan Pyramid workouts, and this is roughly equivalent to one of those (type and lengths of rest are slightly different). It spits out paces for each piece, based on the distance-averaged target pace for the entire L1 workout. I can then compare this to my 2K best, to see how it stacks up.

I've used it a few times now, and have started to have it's prediction ability "regress" to what I believe are the percentages one needs to apply to the target distance averaged pace, to get the pace for each individual piece. I can take a 2K best, map it to the distance averaged pace that your 2K time would predict, and spit out suggested paces for each piece, just for grins.

I'd be glad to do this for anyone that wants to send me a 2K pace that's equivalent to your "best" at this time, an SB, or a PB, your choice.

Thanks ... Mark

PS - Hope this makes sense ... hard for me to explain. Sorry!


Carla:

Congratulations, and nice row!

Regards ... Mark

Mark

My best 2k is 7:44.0
My best 1K is 3:44.8
My best .5K is 1:44.3


PB and SB are the same I only got the rower in December

Let me know
Brendin

Great effort Brendin

I think you are on the right track in planning a few goes at it and bringing it down in stages. Good consistent pace this time though

I'm going to have a go sometime this week - probably Friday

Paul

I calculate:

1:42.6 for 250
1:52.0 for 500
1:53.6 for 750
1:54.2 for 1000

This is fairly close to what you did, actually, so even though you were not that tired, it looks like a very strong effort ... or, your 2K PB is ready to be smashed!

But, then again, it's just my amateur spreadsheet analysis based on my performances during L1 Pyramids. For what that's worth (not much).

Regards ... Mark

Mark, Brendin

Roy 'Gooseflight' Waters has a link in his signature that has a formula for the rugby test included. This calculates the total time based on your pace.

I hope this is OK to advertise - he seems to have made it freely available (apologies if this is not the case)

Paul

http://www.machars.net/spi.php

Wow that is close, you might be right on the 2K, it probably is time to have another go, I knocked 14 second off it last time so I might give it another shot this week. But I might just have another go at the rugby test, I found it kind of fun. Doing the 250m after the others helps as you don't feel like you have to bust every bloodvessel doing it.

Also what damper setting would you recommend I used 3 because I seemed to strain my knee on the 300m on 7 I think

Brendin

Very good point Paul ... that's a great calculator for other intervals as well.



Good question ... I'm too new to know much about this except from my own experience, but I'd have to leave mine at 4 or so (DF = 113 where I normally race and train) because of the 1K ... trying to do that at 7 or 10 would KILL me ...

Happy St. David's Day to all the Taffs. (I wore my Taff AIO for this morning's 15K session to celebrate.)

Have all the Taffs seen this: http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10085?

Are we able to field a Taff team? (I've not checked with the boss, as she's out at work right now.)
The 26th is the first day of British Summertime, that's the day we'll have lost an hour. It looks like I'm free, there's a cycling time trial on 25th (that I'll either ride or marshal).

And how can we get the rest of the Taff world involved "virtually" or "remotely"? This would be a great cause.

I have WCS trials at some point from 27th to 30th of March, if this thing will not screw me up for days (and i can get a lift) then i would be proud to race for TA

Owen

Hi Mark, like Brendo I only got my rower in December so have little idea how to approach this months challenge. Perhaps you could calculate some target splits for me. My best 2K is 7.53.


Many thanks Paul

I've put my name down for the 24-hour challenge but if I don't get to be in the team then I'll definitgely be there for the 50K Relay.

(If the first day of BST is in the middle of the 24-hour challenge, does that mean it's only a 23-hour challenge??)

Hi Paul

that puts your splits at around 1:58.

I would guess you should try 1:59 or 2:00 evenly for each section. That would give you a total of about 12:55ish.

Good luck

PaulT

Thanks Paul, I'll give it a go later

Paul

Paul:

Here's what I compute ...

1:44.7 for 250
1:54.3 for 500
1:55.9 for 750
1:56.5 for 1000

Good luck!

-- Mark

OK, I'm getting up the nerve to try the first Rugby Test using my crazy calculator. It tells me I should be able to do:

1K - 1:48.8 (take a look at my PB, this could be the start of a whole lot of pain, or wasted effort from a fly 'n die right out of the paddock)

750 - 1:48.3 (hmmm, especially #2)

500 - 1:46.8 (seems slow?)

250 - 1:37.8 (another hmmm)

There, they are published for posterity ... and to delay doing this blasted thing. I'll report results later so you can decide if my calculator is worthless, or worth something.

-- Mark

Wow, painful experience. Gave me a headache in addition to "sprint lungs".

Nowhere near my targets:

1:48.7 vs. 1:48.8
1:49.6 vs. 1:48.3
1:50.4 vs. 1:46.8
1:44.6 vs. 1:37.8
1:55.3 vs. 1:48.3

TOTAL: 11:57.6 (1:50.4)

2K+0.6 ... that sucks, yes? Aren't most @ 2K-2?

The last 750 was done purely on lactic acid. Way too fast on the first 1K, and everything else was a struggle.

Break 11:00? You must be Superman.

Break 10:00? The second coming is over.

I saw that Dan Staite broke 10:00. Who would have thought that's what the saviour of the world looked like? Much more clean cut than all his old pictures ...

As you mentioned on my times, it culd be that my2K is up for renewal. I think it is difficult to compare these splits to 2K times for people who have only just started. My ranking times are coming down in huge chunks as my fitness and technique improves. As I said my 2K came down by 14 seconds last time I did it. One always gets big gains at the beginning (I even knocked 6.5 seconds off my 500m time).

So if I'm doing 2K-x it probably is because I did the 2K a month ago and the rugby test yesterday.

I enjoyed it though and I'll be swimming in the glory of being in Taff Attack boat 1 for ages (or at least until two more people try it and bump me out)

Target is to better my boat 5 effort in the 300m

Brendin

Brendin:

I'm with you ... Taff Boat 1 for as long as the fantasy lasts ... meaning until after a few more people row!

Keep up the good work, and take the big improvements as they come, and savour them ... soon, they'll be much, and then very much, smaller. Fact of life. I've just hit that point. Now, a second (or maybe two, yippee) is a big deal.

Regards ... Mark

Off to try this wretched Rugby test. This is going to be just stinking AWFUL!!! who invented it? The same guy who invented panty hose probably

I'm going to try for the same numbers you gave Paul, I guess, for lack of having any idea at all what I'm doing. I've never done an interval workout that had different lenght pieces, and come to think of it, don't do a heck of a lot with intervals in general.

icky icky icky.....eww don't want to do this!!!!

Don't hold anything back Carla. Please tell us how you really feel.

Dwayne, think it ... don't WRITE IT!



BTW, this sucks. If you can go sub-10, I'll buy you 2 trips to BIRC (a not so inside joke)!!!

Mark, Nik Fleming has gone 9:32, IIRC at around the same time that he went 15:40 for 5k.

That's the fastest time I know of, although that may be because people like Hodge and Pinsent (and Benton) either haven't done the test or haven't reported it if they have....

... or they are smart enough not to try it?

That time is surreal to me, but so is a sub-4 mile, a hat trick, etc. As they say in the PGA ads, "These Guys Are Good".



It's a heck-of-a-workout. The aspect that kills me is the lack of active rest. If I could row during the rest, I'd be much better off. This getting off the erg and stretching, etc., is a killer. I tighten up much too much.

Anybody have any ideas here? Maybe a stationary bike or treadmill?

I didn't have either available today, so it would not have mattered in any event. Calisthentics?

Ok, first attempt done.

It was pretty easy because I guess the target paces were too slow. I should be able to improve it easily next time. Then after that it will progressively stink.

12:17.5 ON SLIDES after 4K warmup
1K 3:52.4 1:56.2 32
750 2:53.6 1:55.7 30
500 1:51.5 1:51.5 33
250 51.4 1:42.8 44
750 2:48.7 1:52.4 31

It really felt pretty OK throughout. Next time I will at least have a track record to work off of so I'll know a bit better how to pace it.

Mark, on the rests, I got off and stretched, and also if I have to do inactive rests in any workout I go up and down the rail without holding the handle just sort of practicing the rowing motion and I think that helps keep your legs from cramping. Maybe it doesn't but it's better than staring at the seconds going down and feeling like you are waiting for your alarm clock to go off.




Great first shot! Bet you can't wait to try again!

What's yout time Jon? Under 10?

Daren:

Can you point me to a post that defines the "bleep test" ... I've been searching, but can't find the definition that most people used.

Thanks -- Mark

Carla,
Great first attempt. I know how you feel with this though. Never doing it before, you don't have a reference point to pull from.

I made the mistake of going out to fast on the one I did a week ago. I'm going to try it again on Monday and pace it alot better.

FYI - I can definetly see you going sub-12 on this.

see Daren Does Bleep

Rugby challenge total 11:43.7

Pretty comfortable, like most people I wasn't sure what pace to go out at - nice to be in boat one for a few days though.

Also, during the rests, I lay on the floor with my feet up the wall. Highly recommended for getting your heart rate down.

Paul

1000...1:49.0
750...1:49.0
500...1:48.9
250...1:47.0
750...1:46.5
(My 2k pace is 1:48.9)